shoegaze

Hello fellow gazers,

First off, hi everyone! Glad that i finally became a member of this awesome place. I love how much you guys help eachother out, and of course just talking about great bands and gigs. Great stuff.

Well, anyways. I've been a long time fan on the genre and lately i've been thinking about trying my hand at some dreamy/shoegazer stuff.

I am looking for a cheap but durable solution, to start out making some groovy tunes.
I've been playing acoustic/classical guitar for quite sometime now. At one point I even messed around with a Epiphone Les Paul. But I got rid of it, too much feedback and also too heavy for me.

So I don't have much experience with playing electric.
But that's gonna change

I also play piano/keys and have recorded lots of songs and ideas. But some songs just beg for a little guitar love. Would love to try out some things.

http://soundcloud.com/nihiliann < here are some songs i did. (beware, it's not shoegazy at all)

What is a good recording device?
I heard a lot of good things about the M-audio fast track pro. (it also doubles as a great low latency external soundcard).

A guitar: Maybe Squier Duo Sonic Classic Vibe (cheap,light and low on feedback) can get it for 160euros)
This guitar came up on a discussion here before. I liked the sound this guy pulled out of it a damn lot if you ask me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QjcLtyV ... re=related

What pedal effects will i need to start out. I still have my boss distortion, and a Yamaha FX500 module (got it dirt cheap, but right now, i dont like messing with modules/racks).

This is what the guy in that video used I believe. (He sounds awesome, though what he has is quite cheap as well so)

Marshall EH1 Echohead
Behringer VD400 Vintage Delay (heard those actually really suck)
Behringer UW300 Ultra Wah Auto Wah (same here)
Danelectro D 2 Fab Overdrive
Danelectro D 1 Fab Distortion (maybe not needed, allready have distortion)

I also read some good things about this one: Danelectro Dan-Echo Tape Echo Simulation...
Any suggestions to get the ideal starter kit?

Amp:
I have a roland cube30, will that do? i won't need to do gigs with it.
Or should i try get my hands on a small cute tube amp by orange or vox?

The bands i love the most all use Jazzmasters btw.
Resplandor, The Daysleepers, Air Formation, Deerhunter, Meeting Places.

To give you an idea what type of sounds I'am looking for.
Here are some songs:
Resplandor - Solar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UoVFGCCdUc
The Daysleepers - Threnody (in love with this one)
I like whatever these guys do, but this song is just so... perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlQGg-C7Z_w
Robin Guthrie - Sparkle (rich thick sound)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePA8OPdgRSY
Hammock - The House Where We Grew up (2.17 is HEAVEN)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixOdgv8FdbQ
Slowdive - I believe (so simple, sad and beautiful) Vocals +++
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjht7bMAmPE
The Meeting Places - Same lies as yesterday (the ending is so massive and epic, love it)
http://grooveshark.com/#/s/Same+Lies+As ... TQK6?src=5
Air Formation - don't wait till dawn (also >cold morning ,so pretty)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8S53JSZCYY
Sway - Opentillate (so rich and swirly, dig that hypnotizing sound) Vocals +++
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gk3E4F4D9M
I think I could go on just making an awesome playlist, but you now might have an idea what Iam looking for.

-also love everything The Radio Dept does. oh, and Daniel Land & The Modern Painters

btw, one day I want to record vocals. In a way Slowdive, The Radio Dept., Air Formation, Sway do it... (but that's for later)

For more music, you can always check my last.fm >http://www.last.fm/user/nihiliann you can ad me if you like of course

So let me know what you think.
Iam also a member of the shoegaze collective on facebook, so maybe some of you have seen me there. (I use the name mathijs over there)

Looking forward hearing from you guys

And thanks for taking the time to read all this!

Okay, let me try to hit all of these in order.

For recording, I'd go with something by Tascam. I have a Fast Track Pro, and while it's a decent DI, I'm not crazy about it for recording. Then again, I know jack shit about recording, so perhaps I haven't been using it correctly. I'll let one of the pros answer this one.

In terms of guitars, You're on the right track with Squier. A lot of folks are quite impressed with what they're doing these days. I would also keep MIM (Made in Mexico) Fenders in mind. You can often get a used MIM Tele or Strat in good condition for less money than a new Squier.

You mentioned that all your favorite bands use Jazzmasters, and there's a good reason for that: they're awesome guitars, and different from any other. Unfortunately, they're also really expensive. BUT a Strat or Tele will give you reasonably similar tones. They won't sound quite as mellow or full as a JM, but they'll have more of that Fender chime, which is just as nice. Keep in mind that many shoegazey/dreamy bands have used Strats and/or Teles, including Spacemen 3, Slowdive, and Kitchens of Distinction, to name a few.

Basically, you want something with single-coil or P90 pickups. I'm not going to pull a J. Mascis and tell you never to use humbuckers, but they're simply not good pickups for shoegaze. They get muddy when used with effects. That said, it's really not the guitar itself as much as how you use it. Case in point: Dean Wareham, who has used Les Pauls since Galaxie 500 disbanded (and maybe even in Galaxie 500 -- not sure).

As for effects, lately I've been of the "minimalism is maximalism" school of thought, especially when you're just starting out and deciding which effects you like and don't like. In addition to your Boss distortion, I'd grab reverb and delay pedals, both of which are essential to virtually every shoegazer. Good entry-level options for reverb would be a Digitech Digiverb, Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail, or a Boss RV-5 if you want something a little fancier. For delay, Digitech Digidelay, Ibanez DE-7, or Line 6 Echo Park (the pricier option) are good choices.

Judging from the bands/songs you like, you're also going to want some modulation. Tremolo, phasing, chorus, and flanging will all give you the swirly sound you're looking for. Deerhunter's music is heavy on the phasers. Slowdive used chorus and pitch-shifters, which gives their music that dreamy, detuned quality (see Cocteau Twins, as well). Flangers seem to be disappearing from pedalboards these days, but they give you a dramatic sweeping "airplane" sound, as featured in the Sway song you posted. Tremolo can add a nice dreamy texture to your tone, as well (i.e. Spiritualized), or it can add a crazy face-melting space pulse (i.e. Spacemen 3).

I'd recommend starting with just one modulation pedal, playing around with it for a while, and seeing if you need something else in addition to it. From the songs you posted, I think chorus would be a good place to start. Danelectro's FAB Chorus is super cheap and not half bad-sounding.

As far as amps go, your Cube 30 should be fine to start with. More than fine, actually, since it's basically a mini Jazz Chorus, which is one of the best shoegaze amps out there. You might find as you continue playing that you prefer the organic warmth of a tube amp, in which case I'd recommend the Vox AC4TV.

I was borrowing a Roland Cube 30 for awhile to use as a practice amp because my amp was too loud to use at my house. I would still be using it but the dude I was borrowing it from sold it. It sounded good with all my pedals. The shop down the street from where I live recommends them to everyone who doesn't want to buy a tube amp.

if by small cute orange amp, you mean one of their solid state combos, you're better off keeping the Roland. I had one of the Orange solid states for awhile. it sounded okay but not nearly as good as the Roland. I'd keep the roland until you feel like spending more money on a tube amp of some kind.

You definitely want some combination of distortion/overdrive/fuzz, modulation, delay and reverb, especially delay and reverb. I feel like what cheaper pedals sound the best is pretty subjective so I won't really recommend a lot. If you want to go cheap, you should hit up some pawn/guitar shops to look for some used pedals. There's tons of awesome pedals out there that you can get on the cheap that would be better than buying a new danelectro or behringer pedal. I've seen tons of Boss CE-3 choruses which are good for a shoegaze kind of sound at shops for fairly cheap. A lot of people starting out forget this fact.

I would definitely take the time to use the Yamaha FX500. I've heard that the Soft Focus patch is a good approximation of Slowdive's guitar sound (they may have used FX500s depending on who you're talking to) and you could probably come up with some good sounds out of the thing if you want to customize.

Guitar-wise, the Squire Classic Vibe Duo Sonic is pretty good (i'm definitely not a Squire fan but I liked it when I played one). Squire also makes a Jaguar/Jazzmaster now I think but I can't vouch for the quality because i haven't played one. Definitely consider the suggestion of spending a bit more on a used Mexican Fender.

As for the Jaguar/Jazzmaster route, the Fender ones are not a good first electric guitar because they require some modifications to get them to be playable (like swapping out the bridges). I still think they're the best guitars ever but maybe that fact will make you feel better about not dropping the cash on one right now. I know before I got my Jaguar I went crazy trying to get ahold of one.

Wow, thanks for the all advice guys!

I've looked arround and found these things offered for a nice price:
guitars:
-Squier Duo Sonic 160e
-Fender Telecaster 185e <<
-Squier Jazzmaster 300e
-Squier Jaguar 300e

effects:
-Danelectro D 2 Fab Overdrive 18e
-Boss OD-3 Overdrive 50e <<
-Danelectro D 5 Fab Slap Chorus 18e
-Boss Ce-3 40e <<
-Boss RV 3, and RV5 for around 100e each.
-Digitech Digidelay 36e <<

Not so sure about the Boss reverbs, i have to think. Try to get them cheaper or some alernative.

So these are the essentials: overdrive, distortion, delay, reverb right?
Is there a nice cheap flanger/phaser/tremelo effect i definitely should ad to the mix?

What do you think about these guitars/effects?


update:
oh well, I just bought a ZOOM G2.1U for 80euros. A friend suggested it and it seemed to me like the perfect thing to start with.
Takes up less space, and i will be using it behind my cramped computer/studio space so this really made sense to me somehow.

So the only thing i might still need is a swell guitar +recording device.

That looks like a nice price for the Tele. I've never played a Squier JM or Jag, but 300 euro seems a touch steep to me for a Squier. 'Course, I could just be spoiled by how cheap everything is in America's crumbling economy (they're $300 here).

The ZOOM multi-fx unit is a great place to start. That way, you can figure what you like and don't like, so when you start buying individual pedals, you don't make any unnecessary purchases.

Have fun shoegazing!

Well, i kinda got duped. I found out after I bought it, that it isn't a real fender tele. It's one of those fake ones.
It was very messy and dusty, some parts are missing, 1 tuner protect knob, a corkscrew was replaced by a regular screw.

But it actually plays and sounds pretty good. And it has a tremelo
First I was very pissed of, But that settled down a bit after i cleaned it and found a still kinda OK looking guitar.
It also came with a cool old suitcase (really old and broken, but i like it)
A fender strap, a wall mount and a regular standard. Not too bad for 200E
The guy told me he bought it of a friend of his father, who played in a kinda famous band (in the netherlands back in the 70s)
So it mustn't be that bad. But i might trade it in for a semi acoustic steel string.

If i'm going to keep it, I will at least try to repair it a bit, and get rid of that hideous fake Fender logo.
Maybe this can become my ideal trash guitar for on the side, to gig with and stuff.
From now i'm saving up for either a squier jaguar, jazzmaster or jagmaster.
Should i just pick the one that i find the prettiest? Considering they all must sound pretty comparable.
I've always been in love with the way Jaguars look, especialy the bright ice cream colored versions.
Fender Squier Jagmaster RW 3 Tone Sunburst
http://www.musicstore.com/nl_NL/NLG/Fen ... 006958-000
Fender Squier Vint. Mod. Jaguar HH RW FR Fiesta Red (soooo pretty, reminiscent of that special jaguar candy apple red version)
http://www.musicstore.com/nl_NL/NLG/Fen ... 020871-000
Fender Squier Vint. Mod. Jaguar HH RW 3CS 3 Color Sunburst
http://www.musicstore.com/nl_NL/NLG/Fen ... 020870-000
Fender Squier Vint. Mod. Jazzmaster MN 2CS 2 Color Sunburst - just not as good looking as the rest of the buch listed here.
http://www.musicstore.com/nl_NL/NLG/Fen ... 020872-000

Since we're daydreaming:
A red Charvel Surfcaster.... that's what i want to have one day
This one also looks a lot like the jaguar. How do they all compare to eachother?
Maybe i should just try them out somewhere... see which one i fall in love with instantly

adamjazairi, I like your idea of exploring what sounds and effects suit me the best And man, i love using that tremelo. It's so much fun.
Already in love without even having it connected to an amp!
I wonder how long it will take before i have a dozen of pedals
Ohw, and btw. I will be looking into my FX500. Could find some interesting things in there, last time i was using it, i was sure i was doing something wrong. The effects barely changed my sound.
I also have a microkorg that i can use to filter sounds with. (though i don't really know how yet.)

So many options in gear. Less is more, I know, but still. I just want to make all the music that's been floating in my head for so long. It feels so urgent somehow

Next time, i really want to find that guitar that just completely blends in with my chararacter you know? It's your ship in an ocean of possibilities, better pick the right one...
An amp, a recording device, some effects, those are not so hard to pick.
But that dream guitar. damnnn. Maybe I'am just an obsessive perfectionist..
I can't be the only one

edit: deleted the smiley overload

meh...if you're going to be saving up anyway, i'd just go ahead and save up more to get a real Fender jag/jazzmaster rather than a Squire. The blacktops are only a bit more than the Squires and the blacktops are great playing guitars for their price (though i hate the pick ups because i don't like humbuckers.)

I will say, stay away from that jagmaster. The new Jagmasters suck. I've played four or five of them and they all had problems with them. The quality control at that plant is really below what other Squire guitars strive to be. Every new jagmaster i've picked up had some pretty major problem with it. I mean, if you saw one at a shop or something and it played well, cool, but i definitely wouldn't buy one over the internet sight unseen.

that sucks about the tele but if it plays well, you may as well keep it. clones are awesome sometimes and brand really doesn't matter that much since a good guitar's a good guitar.

For every budget there's always a sollution.
From low to high:

I could get a used Duo Sonic for 160e
Fender Blacktop Jaguar for 550e
http://www.rockpalace.com/product/Fende ... ster-Black
looks allright.
Fender Blacktop Jazzmaster for 550e
Fender Classic Player Jazzmaster for 860e
http://www.rockpalace.com/product/Fende ... unburst-RW
Fender Classic Player Jaguar for 830e
http://www.rockpalace.com/product/Fende ... t-Rosewood Beautiful!

imo the BT and CP jazzmasters look SO much better than the squier versions.
Might get that Duo Sonic cheap, and then after that, move on to a classic player jazzmaster of jaguar. I'm going to read more about the differences between the jag and jazz...

G'day

I had a CV Duo-Sonic and thought it was a pretty decent guitar. Only sold it because I needed the money to buy something else.

Something to keep in mind--Squire is going to be releasing a J. Mascis Signature Jazzmaster in 2-3 months. No humbuckers, either. Since it's a Squier and I assume it will be a CV-series, it should be no more than $375, I would think.